Externalizing internal conflicts and the other way round

[forlorn1]

On of the things I've always liked, but never felt good at in games (and is tangential to Harelquin's thread on fantasy elements) is how to get good at externalizing a characters internal conflicts.

This comes up alot in Carry, which is a game I very much enjoy, but never get to play.  Basically each character has a burden they carry (hence the name) through the game.  The best scenes come when the GM can externalize that internal conflict and thus the character has to face the conflict.

I think there is a real art to bringing that type of conflict to the game in a timely manner (especially in a Con game).

Anybody got any good hints for this type stuff, or know any good resources.

jeff

[Jason Morningstar]

Play some Hero's Banner. Seriously.  It's 120% about internal conflicts, externalized. 

We're playing now.    It's 1874.  My guy loves his older brother Tom and is working toward getting him elected as a US Senator. My guy is also a former Union Colonel who was a terrible commander in the civil war and burns with a desire to "set things right", to prove something to both himself and President Grant, his hero (despite Grant being a dirty drunk and a pro-Reconstruction Republican). 

He gets a commission to go fight Comanches in the Red River War.  He's stoked.  He rounds up his old uniform and gets ready to depart.  And then General Mackenzie sidles up to him.  Tom Weatherford has an excellent chance of becoming Senator, another Democrat to tip the balance.  Thing is, he did all this terrible shit in Missouri during the war, stuff that will politically ruin him if it comes to light.  You can probably keep a lid on it if you stay back east and resign your commission.  Or you can go off and play soldier, exorcise your personal demons, and watch your brother burned alive by the man you revere.

[Mel White]

Although maybe not exactly what you're looking for, Burning Wheel/Burning Empires awards Artha to player characters that externalize an internal conflict and show the turmoil the character is going through in making a tough decision or choosing a course of action that pits beliefs against each other.  Although in BW/BE the decision to demonstrate the conflict is all on the player, if there were a GM or peer awarded benefit in any game there might be more angst demonstrated. 
I think you're talking about though situations where the GM is able to create a conflict for a character that brings an internal conflict to light.  In that case it has to rely on flags on the character sheet or other signals from the player regarding, 'what would be cool now?'
Mel

[forlorn1]

Play some Hero's Banner. Seriously.  It's 120% about internal conflicts, externalized. 

Awww dang, not another Indie game to buy.  Curse you Morningstar....



Jeff

[Lugh]

I actually had a very similar question come up a little while back, and couldn't come up with an answer.

In novels, one of the classic conflicts is man vs. himself.  A man has to overcome his baser nature, or resolve conflicting desires, or come to terms with lingering issues from a past event.  In a novel, or even a movie, it is relatively simple of demonstrate this conflict.  Just use a monologue.

In a game, though, it is a lot harder.  Most players do not have the acting or writing chops to pull off an impromptu monologue that doesn't seem either pretentious or tedious (or both).  Also, monologuing is frequently seen as, and indeed frequently is, hogging the spotlight.  And, yet, it's damned difficult to evoke a sense of internal struggles without it.  Even when the GM has dropped a bang to focus on the conflict, and the GM is well aware of the flags involved, the other players may not be.  So, how do you, in the words of the topic, externalize the conflict?

One way, obviously, is to turn the monologue into a dialogue.  Either trade expository repartee with an NPC, or have a PC lend you an ear.  Functionally, it's not much different from a monologue, but the other people may feel more involved.  This is probably the most common tactic.

Another way is to add descriptive text to your actions, that sketch out the issue in broad terms.  This can be extremely effective.  But, it requires someone with at least a bit of writing talent to do the sketch well.  If it goes on too long, it is effectively just a monologue in different clothes.  If it is too short, it can understate the drama in the conflict, reducing the punch of the scene.

Obviously, an ideal solution is foreshadowing.  At one point, your dead sister comes up in conversation.  At a later point, you discover that the king's champion is the man who killed your sister.  You can't challenge the champion because of the political complications.  In order to clue in the other players, all you have to do is reference your sister, and they understand what is likely going on in your head.  Unfortunately, this generally requires either a stilted "hello you bunch of strangers, let me talk about my flags" campfire session, or an ongoing campaign.  IME, it's damned hard to do in a one-off.

How do you fly your flags to the other players?

[forlorn1]

How do you fly your flags to the other players?

Excellent question.  Wish I had an answer.

I'm guessing that some games reward the player for doing that specifically.  BW and artha as Mel said.  (personally I haven't made it through the crunchy bits of BW to get to the artha parts, but I haven't had the opportunity to play much.)

Keys in TSoY function somewhat on that level.  Every time I watch someone grab from the XP pile of tokens, as a player, I'm interested in what Key they're hitting.

In general if I'm  looking to make you awesome, I'll care bout your flags, and help you hit them.

But a general technique to make it happen eludes me.

Jeff

[buddha]

Jeff,

Having just played some Mountain Witch with Mel, I gotta say that I'm having a blast with the foreshadowing thing! I'm able to literally introduce elements into the world related to my Dark Fate, which no-one but me knows about.  So I'm externalizing this conflict, and everyone's interested in it because they're trying to guess what secret I have, and I'm invested because it lets me bring the cool, be mysterious and lay clues for the other players! 

I guess what I'm saying is; be direct (but symbolic?), be over the top, and when you have narrative control, drive the game to your character's flags!  There was a moment yesterday where George's samurai (Ito?) encounters a woman in the forest... and immediately makes her the woman he's on the quest to kill the Mountain Witch for!!! Damn that was cool! And it said to me: this woman is important to me. Trifle with her at your own peril! So I'm totally working out how I can get between the two of them during the final showdown!!! Man alive, I love roleplaying!

Buddha

[Jason Morningstar]

How do you fly your flags to the other players?

You can always tell them.  And you can always ask.  I often start a session, regardless of my role/authority, with "what do you want to happen to your guy tonight?"

[Lugh]

You can always tell them.  And you can always ask.  I often start a session, regardless of my role/authority, with "what do you want to happen to your guy tonight?"

I'll probably get lynched for this sentiment, but I really don't like that approach.  I don't want to write a collaborative story.  I don't want to decide ahead of time what the plot will be.  That kills the fun for me (well, actually, it's just a whole different kind of fun, and not what I want out of my gaming).

What I want, as a player, is to be an autonomous actor within the story.  The GM frames the setting, and sets the hooks.  It is up to me how I react to those hooks, how I deal with the other characters, and how I resolve the conflicts.  Now, I do like script control.  I am a big fan of points the player can spend to have things go the "right" way.  But, pre-creating the script really breaks my immersion, and makes me feel constrained.  The primary reason that I love rpgs is the absolute freedom.  I can do (or, at least, try) anything.  Restricting that for any reason, even for the sake of "the greater story," sticks in my craw.

Unfortunately, that leaves me in an awkward position when it comes to facilitating the story.  I want to be autonomous, and yet I need to engage the whole group.  And, ideally, I want to always engage the group in character.  I don't want to pause in the middle of the game to say, "Hey, John, don't you have that 'falsely accused' flag?  Shouldn't that have come up in that last conflict?"  At that point, I just don't feel like I'm roleplaying anymore, but taking part in some kind of meta-game.  It's just as mood-breaking as stopping to discuss the movement rate of the monsters in an attempt to gain tactical advantage.

So, I'm looking for suggestions on how to fly flags in character, rather than out of character.

[Jason Morningstar]

That's cool, lynching optional.

I don't think we're actually that far apart.  The usual answer to my question, in my TSOY group, would be something like "I really want to see Kitkat have to choose between love and revenge tonight."

I think we're got a higher tolerance for metagame, but it's all relative.  I totally appreciate your point of view.

[buddha]

Do your players enjoy hosing themselves? or each other?  When I'm playing, I do my best to communicate the things I'm excited about to the group (by, like, bouncing up and down in my seat) and, most importantly, actively pushing for scenes that I want (I'll say, "Screw this noise, I'm going after that son of a bitch that killed my dog, you guys deal with the cops...").  When I'm in a scene that isn't what I'm after, I'll do my best to make it part of my goal, or to use it to set up the stuff I want to see (IaWA is good for this...).  Doesn't always work, as other people are involved, with other motives and goals, but that's what makes playing interesting.  But best of all, I love to see my character struggle, and so I hose often and liberally.  I love it when the other players hose my guy, or point out something that can be used against us (I do this one a lot...).  This may not work for everyone, but being open to and aware of everyone's characters' flaws, faults and drawbacks can drive a game a long way, and having the players actively pursue their own goals ensures they're invested in what they are doing...  put the two together, and you've got bang after bang.

I guess what I'm saying is encourage the players to pursue their own goals, and keep an eye on what gets them bouncing up and down in their seats, and then hit them with the big stick they gave you on their character sheets... I'm pretty sure candy will come out!

Buddha

PS- Also, when I'm not in a scene, I'm doing my best to support the other players... offering suggestions when things look like they're slowing down, dropping ideas of what I think might be cool, or where something might go, but trying not to be pushy about it.  At the very least, I'm being an active audience member... ooohing and aaahhhing, saying "Dude, that's awesome" or "No way... you're not going to..." or laughing my ass off.  Being engaged with and listening to the other players encourages them to start pushing for the things they want, when they see that everyone else thinks those things are cool...

[Jason Morningstar]

Hosing ourselves and each other?  Yes.  To a creepy degree. 

Monday night I had the opportunity to have my entire company massacred by Comanches, which I of course took, adding that my guy was, himself, both unhurt and one of the few survivors, found hiding under a dead horse.